TOTM Pictures

[Proboxfan]

Should the TOTM contest allow ONLY photos submitted by members of their OWN cars, in a format which is digitally or otherwise unaltered?

[macfrank]

Gary,

I agree with you. The pictures used should be in their own cars.

However, how are you going to know that the digital or otherwise picture is in an unaltered form ? I could not know, neither could you.

I have taken a 3 Adobe Photoshop version 7.0 courses from a professional photographer that uses it all the time and you can altered any digital or otherwise picture to make it look like you want too.

Actually I think this should be encourage so the more creative guys have a chance to win.

But it should be in their own cars.

macfrank

[TBird02]

I think the car photo should be submitted by the owner, as it really exists, reflecting the owner's taste showing unique customizations, or stock from the plant. But don't have a real problem with placing the car in unique settings using photoshop software. However, I do prefer cars in actual settings. Just my opinion.

[TBird4-2]

I think to keep it fair to everyone the picture should be of your own car without any doctoring other than text. Not everyone has the means, computer savy, nor the network to make these unique changes.

It should image places that the bird lives or traveled. They can showcase the pride and unique features the owners have place in their ride. It should be about the owner and thier Thunderbird, not what I can do with a computer.

I believe we all agree our cars are wonderful vehicles so show them in natural settings not computer generated.

[taflocks]

what about our members that cant affoard thier own bird?
i know of a few here that don't have birds. maybe there could be a catagory for doctord photos? i do think the doctord photo this month is very nice and deserves to be voted for.

[Chuck]

I agree that an owner should only post pictures of their own bird. And we the voters should assume that the owner has enough integrity not to alter the photo. For future bird owners I think we should allow them to enter someone else’s bird as long as the photo is not altered and the submission clearly says that the birdie in the picture is not theirs?

[davemartin88]

I look at the photos and vote for the one I like, doesn't matter who owns the car or what was done with the photo. I wouldn't want to disqualify an otherwise great picture that happens to have a bumper from another unrelated car removed or something like that although some submitters may do more than that?

[Bruce]

As far as I'm concerned the individual does not need to be the owner, however, using an enhancing program to make the car look better than it really is should not be allowed. A lot of us spend countless hours and dollars improving the appearance of our Birds and that should be given greater consideration than computer enhancing. Next, why should someone be able to cut and paste a Bird to any prestine location in the country because they have a $200.00 comupter program. Find a good local locations and take a real picture. I for one like to see things in their real form not computer generated or enhanced.
This is only a personal opinion and not an attack on anyone.

[dartguy699]

i think that the submissions should be the owners bird but with interesting backgrounds considered for award. perhaps a separate catagory for non owned cars or digitally modified ones might be in order too.
jim

[brd4jk]

well.......lets see i used to have a gorgious bird.......raven.........i still have pictures......that arent doctored......and she won alot of car shows......have the plaques.........shes gone had to give her up....

i dont know which is harder to want one and dont.......or to have one and have to get rid of it..... :bawl:


if i remember right davida posted a pic of his bird going of a cliff with a parachute

[brdnhand]

Hey Gary,
I assume YES means NO alterations for the poll?

[JBest]

I agree with all of you.......meaning what?

I think I'm hearing from a lot of members that there should not be any computer enhancement to the photos, including color, locale, special effects, etc. A TOTM should be a standard photo of the car wherever it is placed. A standard TOTM as always.

Then I think there's a growing cluster of people that would like to razzle-dazzle with software. Pull out all the stops and create Fantasy pics. Different colors, settings, filters, etc.

These two approaches will not be able to use the same set of rules due to computer tools and gadgets or lack of, due to Bird ownership or lack of, due to natural backyard settings or lack of, etc. etc.

I think the TOTM should remain as it was originally conceived, a photo of your Bird, as is, wherever you put it, and that's that!
A second category should be created for Fantasy Bird Pics, maybe not even every month. The number of people in this category at this time would be far fewer than in the regular TOTM, thus having fewer participants and needing fewer contests.These pics could follow the four seasons with contests for each of Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter.

Does any of this make sense?


:bestwish:

[taflocks]

it makes sense but we should allow this month's entry to procede as there has been no rule in affect at the time of it's entry.

[JerryP]

I think if you look at the TBOTM voting thread you will see that next month Justin will make some changes. Right now, we should drop this and try to spare folk's feelings. I know there have been feelings hurt and I don't think anyone meant any harm in either the posting of the comments or by the entry of the photo in the contest. Voice your opinion with your vote and be sensitive with what comments you make. There were no rules broken and no fouls called.

Thanks.

[JBest]

Absolutely, proceed with the contest!! All's fair as it stands. Besides, there's again some extremely nice looking pictures. Let's get the voters out......

[Proboxfan]

A vote for "YES" is a vote for the entry to be ONLY of a car that is owned by the person submitting it, AND for that photo entry to be unaltered or unenhanced.

Just for clarification, resizing the picture to 800 X 600 to me is not the kind of alteration that causes concern. It's the addition of elements not in the original picture via digital alteration.

So, basically the intent of the vote is to set forth two more conditions under the rules:

1) The car in the submitted photo must be OWNED by the person entering it into the TOTM contest

2) The entered photo must be a 100% original copy with no enhancements or alterations done digitally, save for resizing the picture according to the requirements for submittal to this website (800 X 800 maximum).

And by the way, my intent was never to hurt anyone's feelings, and even though I didn't have an entry, I thought for fairness and clarification's sake I had to say something on this matter.

If people want to view me as the "bad guy" for this, then there's nothing I can do to change your perception. Sorry!

[Chuck]

Well I think we ought to make an allowance for members of the site that don't yet own a bird. I think these folks should be able to participate. They should follow the same rules - no doctoring.

[OH2 TBRD]

I second the emotion Chuck, partially. The only restrictions that should apply are:

1. The photo includes a Thunderbird (afterall it is TOTM).
2. The photo is submitted by a member (represents the club).

Don't like digitally altered photos? Duh, don't vote for them. Vote for whatever is eye candy for you.

[DrtiBird]

JerryB's post #12 sounds like a workable plan!
:pbj:

[K.P.]

I agree with OH2TBRD.

ANY member should be able to submit a photo, and it MUST be of a TBird. Simple.

I think we need to stay away from too many rules that get us all bogged down.

[CaptainKen]

I don't intend to demean what anyone has/has not done here or feel that my opinion is any better than others, BUT.....the TBOM photo contest should be just that; unaltered photographs submitted by the car's owner. Sorry, but non ownership of a car or supporting TBN financially does not justify bending or relaxing that intent. One of the original founders of TBN who has invested a tremendous amount of time and money in TBN does not own a Thunderbird and I know he would NEVER bend or relax it's integrity.

I guess I'm a realist, because I do not like altered photographs or images in any medium. I look at that process as a means of "cheating" whether it's done with an inexpensive throwaway camera or the most elaborate software. Yeah, I know if I don't like that stuff, I don't have to vote for it, but if we allow fantasy altered images to enter this contest, then with the limited amount of entries allowed, the truely beautiful and genuine photographs will be crowded out of the competition. Again...no offense intended!!

I watch a lot of fantasy cartoons and videos on TV with my 3 year old grandaughter. If I want fantasy photographs of Thunderbirds, I'll try to find a Barbie cartoon to watch with her.

[taflocks]

for some of our less fourtunate members this is the only way they can participate. if the group is against doctoring then members should be able to take photos of non owned birds or a friends bird.
and like i have said there are 11 other photos to vote for. it seems that if her photo was not leagal or not kosher that no-one would of voted for it, but it seems to have a good % of the votes..no one is being hurt by the picture and it is obvisuly not a real photo. if she was trying to fool someone into thinking it was real, that would be a different story........

[CaptainKen]

You have made my point for me Tom..."obviously it is not a real photograph." You do make a valid point, however in that if a member wants to participate in this contest and does not own a car, then they should be allowed to photograph another Thunderbird. I concede that, just please don't "alter" that photo.
Thanks.

[BirdsAndBugs]

I think having 2 contests would be the best solution and would also generate more participation. For the Thunderbird of the Month, the photo should be a photo that is not digitally altered (i.e. except for sizing) that the owner submits of his/her own car.

If we had a Thunderbird Photo of the Month, we could allow photos of any Thunderbird regardless of model year. See a nice 56 or 62 model T-Bird at the car show, snap a photo and submit it. :thumbsup: It would also be appropriate to allow fantasy photos like the one Kimberly did with Graceland (which was pretty awesome).

[OH2 TBRD]

Those who oppose digitally altered photos have forgotten that film photos can be altered too. I remember that not too long ago we had a beautiful TOTM that appeared to be taken with a starlite filter. If I use a filter to deepen colors or use a slow shutter speed to give a sense of motion, should I be disqualified? How about manipulation of the image in the darkroom?

The mere uploading of your digital images from your camera to a compressed format on your computer digitally alters your photos. Let's ban digital phots unless the original disk is submitted by USPS. :sad:

Come on folks, keep it simple. See pic you like...vote for it.
Don't like a pic 'cause the submitter used a starlite filter and you think it's cheating...don't vote for it.

[Donnervogel]

I'd like to see two contests. One is TOTM (T of the month), and FTOTM (fantasy/fun T of the month).
Let the real cars shine through in their own light in TOTM.
Let the imaginations roll in the other FTOTM.
Both are exciting to see and we should encourage both.

[slo tbird]

I wasn't around TBN when the TOTM started so I don't know how it was presented.

For me, I enjoy looking at photos of other members TBirds. I think the setting adds to my enjoyment as do photos that have been enhanced. I enjoy the variety, imagination, and I appreciate the photographics skills.

Won't our vote ultimately determine what is a winning TBird photo? I say we don't need more rules.

[DrtiBird]

If we are to allow "fabricated" photos, why would anyone bother to take anymore pictures?

Take one stock pic of your bird (or someone elses if it looks better), then shop the internet for various locations for backdrops.

Look at the avatar with the diecast bird in the casino setting with the red dice; that didn't even require a life sized bird.
:pbj:

[5bird7]

Simple rules, Simple contest - For FUN! For Every Member.

Complicated rules - means someone has to make a decision beyond a SIMPLE "vote for the one you like best."

Touching up photos runs a whole gamut of meanings from simple cropping to altering the contents. Touching up photos has been standard fare since the camera was invented - whether film or digital - by professionals and non-professionals. I do it frequently to take out what I call "trash" or distractions in a photo and I don't feel guilty about doing it one bit. I like looking at a pleasing photo.

There's no way we could judge which photo had been altered or not and we don't need to get into that kind of nitpicking. Altering can be done with any graphics program that most members have at their disposal including the standard "paint" that comes with many Windows packages.

What it means to you, the photographer, if you haven't worked with a graphics programs & don't plan to, is you have to be diligent in finding that good scene or minimize that background or foreground in the photo that you enter - it's takes practice and gets easier as you do it more frequently. You start searching for that perfect location, that perfect angle, that perfect light. That's what is so good about a digital camera to begin with - you can take loads of photos with minimal cost.


As for the original rules - they still exist within the rules we use now. The intent is for us to have nice pictures to look at and give the members something else to look forward to on this site and give someone a pat on the back for job well done. Nothing MORE.

Remember - You can only win this once and what better way than with your own car but if a member doesn't have that choice, they shouldn't be ineligible to participate.

btw - I'm back.:rolleyes:

[Quickdraw]

Welcome back Dot!

I agree that judges shouldn't be placed in a position of trying to determine if, say, a busy back ground was "cleaned up" a bit for example.

Why can't everyone just vote for the Thunderbird photo they like the best? Maybe it sould be called "Thunderbird Photo of the Month."

[VA2k2Tbrd]

Here here! Well said, well put!

[Proboxfan]

Welcome back! :wavey:

Despite what our personal feelings are on the matter, it's becoming increasingly apparent how the majority feels about this issue. It would only be fair and democratic to observe and take heed of the results, and to implement it into the rules from here on out.

Otherwise, what's the use of implementing any arbitrary rules?

[Proboxfan]

As so many people have already said, why not make two separate contests?

One for TOTM with the rules already covered, and another for ANY picture, illustration, depiction or other rendering of a Thunderbird with no limits on the imagination!

That could actually be fun for everybody. You could look all over the internet, or maybe even dig up some of your father's pictures or grandfather's. Basically, more of an "open" category that might lead to many new interesting finds that maybe take a little more creativity and research.

I think the TOTM was originally conceived as a pride of ownership thing, as so many people have customized their cars and have taken great effort to get nice photos in great settings.

Hopefully that way, no one feels excluded, or even infringed upon.

[taflocks]

kevin: you make some valid points!
but i do like the 3rd through 6th seasons of gilligans island over the first 2. now only if we could get ted to do i love lucy in color.......

[5bird7]

I will say that once a photo has been put on the net, it is digitized and subject to altering. We are a "net" group - we can't get around that fact.

My point is that defining the rules any further will create situations where judgements have to be made and no one will win in that situation. The vote of the members will become meaningless if someone protests that a photo is altered. It's a time-consuming job, fraught with human errors and I doubt anyone here wants to be the judge of whether a photo has been altered or not. There are too many variables and I don't find the simple rules in place now to be all that vague. We don't have a lot of "photos" that are obviously graphicly altered and they have added a fun element to previous TOTM submissions.


Gary,
2 contests are not out of the question though I personally don't feel we're ready for a separation yet . Let's get a graphics thread or 2 going where we can post our graphic manipulations and see what evolves out of that. This group works thru evolution and there are a number of members that would probably enjoy that diversion. If those involved in that want their own contest then we can work from there.

A number already are having fun with their avatars. Maybe we could work on new avatars - we need some new avatars for new members that don't have the graphics capabilities and want something different than what's available now - the 04s have been left out so far and I haven't had the time to make any for the Justins' to add.

:backtotop Now, I've strayed from the original intent of this thread. I wanted to make a point that hadn't been brought up at the beginning and could have swayed some of the voting on this thread. Wish you would have waited til I got back to start this thread.:wink: I feel like we're the mice that think belling the cat is a good idea but who's going to do it?:worried:

[jerrym3]

Maybe Elvis didn't drive TBirds, but his Lincoln Mark went up for sale on the auction last weekend.

[Kokomo]

I want to see great photos. I don't care if they are fabricated or altered and I don't think that it matters whose car is in the photo. Just for the record, all of my photos ever posted on here are "real". I agree with Dot about the nitpicking that would be required to judge wheter a photo is digitally altered. Taking good photos is an art. Digitally enhancing photos is just a modern extension of that art. I vote for the photos that I like best.

Jimmy

[A Justin]

Just to inform everyone... We have decided to allow it to stand that members can enter photos that are altered. As dot put it... you can only win once, and if you choose to win using an altered photo or one that is not of you thunderbird, then so be it...

If you choose to dislike this that is fine, however you do not have to vote for the picture.

[Proboxfan]

Even though an overwhelming majority voted to amend the rules, they shall be ignored and overruled? Incredible.

[OH2 TBRD]

To the moderators I say Amen!

[LuvHisBird]

Just a reminder....There is no democracy here....if you want to play, you play by the Justin's rule....pretty simple really....

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

bird4JK....I did that photo for DavidA, it was a project in my PhotoShop Class I was taking.

To note...it did not win that month, nor did the one he posted with Scarlett running toward the car. People will vote for what they like, pure and simple.

[taflocks]

THERE SHOULD BE A DISCLAIMER ON THOSE PHOTOS THOUGH.

[5bird7]

Point noted, taflocks.

[BirdsAndBugs]

Justin, if that's your ruling, then please relabel this contest as Photo of the Month.

To my way of thinking, Thunderbird of the Month should be more of a pride of ownership thing designed to showcase a particular vehicle.

[trpar]

Geeezzz. Seems like much ado about nothing. I have only been around this site for a week or so and joined because there seemed to be a lot of intelligent, proud Thunderbird owners harmoniously joined in fellowship and willing to share experiences, problems and advice with other members. It would be sad to see this wonderful "club" degenerate into a bickering site. I hope my first impression holds true. I am only interested in seeing this as a venue for keeping everyone up to date on problems and solutions relating to Thunderbirds and sharing experiences and joys through our common bond. Hopefully we can keep everything on that level because this can be a very enjoyable and valuable tool for us all.

Personally, whether a picture is touched up or not doesn't rattle my cage at all. I would prefer that all pictures were of an actual owner's TBird au naturale but if someone wants to submit doctored work and win, it would be a hollow victory for that person.

OK, that may be more of a two cents than a newbie is entitled to, so I will shut up and leave it to the veterans.

[BirdsAndBugs]

Ted, I think your first impression is right regarding this site. We're generally a pretty harmonious group; even if we don't always see eye to eye 100% of the time.
:cheers:

[K.P.]

Ted. This IS a great site. And I agree with your 2 cents.

By the way, be careful...this site is also VERY addictive! but the worst that can happen to you is that you grow in appreciation of the TBird, and you get to meet good folks who become great friends! jump in with both feet!

[trpar]

Thanks BirdsAndBugs and KarylP. I really do enjoy the site and you're right about the addictive part Karyl. I seem to log on at least twice every day. I will be gone a couple of weeks starting Sunday. We have over two feet of snow here in Nebraska and I am going to play in the sun in South Florida. Too bad I am flying and the Bird will stay garaged. Just can't take her out in this mess though.:-)

[Epi_rush]

I've been so quiet on this issue and while most of you have had the opportunity to get over it, I haven't. There were a few of you that I enjoyed chatting with here that I considered friends... I found out just how hurtful some of you can be. You have no idea how some of your comments affected me. Also, there were some here that I've never talked to that sent emails and messages of support and even one in particular that REALLY surprised me. I want to say "thank you" to those people. You helped tremendously.

When I entered this contest, I did have permission and I went by the rules. I didn't enter just to win, but to also share something with the rest of the group. That picture represents my home town, my love for music and my love for this beautiful car. Most of you know I can't afford one.. and this was just a way for me to "dream".

I didn't mean for this to cause such a problem and if I had known how I would have been made to feel, I never would have entered.

[A Justin]

I gave her permission.

[K.P.]

It might have been nice if those who wanted further clarification had waited until AFTER the voting to post their comments. Especially since Kim's picture had already been submitted. (She didn't break new ground, by the way. DavidA submitted a couple of interesting "altered" photos for TBOM. Gosh, at least I THINK they were altered!:lol:) Anyway, it might have spared Kim's feelings, because it would be hard not to take it personally, even though it may not have been meant personally.

[TBird02]

I pesonally never meant any comment to be hurtful to anyone, and if they were, I am very sorry. It was simply a matter of needing groundrules where none had existed. It was inevitable that rules should be established, as our membership is so much more diversified now. I really don't think anyone meant to hurt feelings. Many members (including me) just tend to be blunter than others. This site always tends to "cut to the chase," rather than be diplomatic. Again, a result of rapid growth, and not enough time to really get to know one another. We certainly should never let something that is supposed to be fun, like this contest, become a wedge between friends.

When this site originated, I think everyone except the Justins owned Birds, so members were naturally entering their personal cars. However, with a larger membership, things that were once taken for granted will occasionally need structure. In any case, the main point is to share our love of this great car, and build a bunch of lasting friendships along the way.

[trpar]

Amen! TBird02

[slo tbird]

Epi_Rush
I voted for your photo. It made me feel good. Submit another next month. I look forward to it.

John H.

[LuvHisBird]

Epi.....I too loved your picture and I keep telling DavidA Elvis is still alive and you helped to prove my point. :guitar:

:metoo: I love the "enhanced" photos that are submitted as well as some of the avatars that people come up with. It is "art" in its own form as far as I am concerned and just another way for people to share their creative talents.

So thank you :tyty: :tyty: for sharing yours and I look forward to seeing more from you.

BTW...I don't own a bird either.... but I do have fun with DavidA's.....

:high5: :high5:

[JerryP]

I always knew Elvis was abducted by aliens. Every once in a while they beam him down. Good work Epi on capturing this rare event. :joker:

[Sam]

Actually I think Kim should copyright her picture!:thumbsup:
There are enough Elvis fans out there she could get rich from it! :pbj:
Maybe in a black frame where the headlights on the T-Bird really light up. :candle:
Don't think for an instant I'm being sarcastic. Just go to "Deck The Walls" in the mall, and they don't have Elvis pics as pretty as that!
I'm serious, go get thet picture out to the public and make some money!:nono:
It'll sell like hotcakes!:bestwish:

[theherd]

Sam, I told her the same thing. She could make posters of it and sell them at Graceland.

[LuvHisBird]

I'll take one for me and one for my daughter-in-law.