A new problem

[AZTB]

Generally speaking, when I have a real problem the last place I take the car is to Ford Service. I have never heard more excuses for solving problems than at Ford. I don't think it is dishonesty but a kind of slovenly attitude toward doing any real work. Almost any reputable mechanic has better access to parts than does Ford. In fact, when I was told by the local Ford dealer that the electrical harness was bad and there were no replacements available any place in the country I found a replacement myself on the internet but the harness maker assured me the problem was not in the harness but in the main module which Ford again told me was unavailable. I had the car towed to my own mechanic who ordered the main module and it arrived in a box from the local dealer who said it was unavailable. They are essentially a lot of lazy, unskilled people who always look for an easy way out the problem....for them.

...yep, totally agree.

[Brad]

...yep, totally agree.

I am by no means defending the dealers but a large part of the problem is by design of the process. Dealers and the manufacturer make a profit on parts so the book will first tell them to replace a part to eliminate it as a source of the problem. This makes sense when the part is 35 bucks verses $200. per hour for diagnostics but when the part is over $1,000. and the issue isn't resolved that is a problem. Even when my car was under extended warranty I felt like I always got "screwed" by the dealer, between the deductible, and non-covered items they would talk me into not to mention the $200. to hook up a code scanner (free at autozone).

[RetroGeorge]

Guys, good morning. I have read thru this stream of posts. I am old. I am crotchety. And I am curious and furious:

IS THIS RETROBIRD ANOTHER EDSEL ??? Tell the truth - you have already bought the car, and there is no "saving face" with the folks on this forum. We're all in it up to our eyeballs.

My Dad was an electrical engineer. In a period of 2 years, he became a master Edsel mechanic, by no choice of his own, having to replace every damned part on that Edsel. This Ford Retrobird is making the Edsel look like a Toyota Corolla.

My retrobird's check engine light has been off and on for all 3 years I have owned it (for all 3 state inspections). It is on NOW, and I have to take it in to see why the air conditioner is not working. So, I am looking at AC repair and environment system repair.

I am not a rich man. At someplace in my life, I have to take a step back and ask what is going on here? A lot of you folks can do your own work. I cannot. Should I pay whatever it will cost to fix the AC and check engine light, then DROP THIS CAR LIKE A BAD HABIT ???

[larry n]

I called around and the shops I called would not try to repair a plastic tank. They are afraid for liability reasons. I have no choice to let the dealer install a used one .

[tbird3127]

My 2002 goes on Craigslist this spring --- Alan

[428PI]

I've been a mechanic all my life and I'm not sure about the Tbirds reliability either. I bought my with 100k about 3 years ago and now has 123k or so on it. I had to replace the EGR valve (the CEL came on) and resealed the front timing cover (big job) and for insurance replaced the water pump, the plastic thermostat manifolds and upper and lower rad hoses. Haven't done a thing to the coils or plugs. I do have an ac leak that has gotten worse (oh, and I replaced the manifold and tube assy on the ac a couple years ago). I haven't done any of these things to my other cars with much higher mileage but remember the tbird is getting old and gaskets are starting to get rock hard and will start to leak. Oh, and I had to spend 270 bucks on getting the back glass glued but they left some looseness in the top now. Perhaps the top has stretched. OH, I've gone through some tires (Ohtsu brand that will get cupping after awhile and only last 24k at most). How long will parts be available? I don't know. Probably the reliability isn't any worse than the LIncoln LS on which it's based. I've seen those with 240k plus and going strong. Oh, I forgot that replacing the coolant recovery tank about 3 times and finally put a Ford one in there. Oh, back to the problem on your tbird. I wonder if the mechanic really knows the tanks leaking? They probably didn't get enough diag time to find out for sure. They probably really need to drop the tank and pressurize it for sure but that's at least a couple hours of labor. The bigger shops will want to give a real close estimate (and over price to cover their buts). If I ran a small shop I would ask the customer if they wanted it fixed and just do it with getting the parts at the cheapest possible way. When one requires so close an estimation (required in some states) the shop has to have some cushion built in. The whole system is built on mistrust. I've worked in shops that worked both ways but can honestly say the mechanics try to fix the problem as best they can but know sometimes things don't work out as planned (we don't have xray eyes).

[Welker]

Keith, I think you might be right about the Thunderbird being a kind of Monday morning car. I have noted over the years all the things that have gone wrong with the car. I have read on this site so many things I have not encountered but I have noted that all the things I have encountered are mentioned. I have a kind of theory of why some people have the feeling that the car has built in problems and is a kind of Edsel. First, and obviously, the problems are legion. The yearly changes from '02 to '05 sort of make that point even if the changes haven't resolved all the problems. I should point out what some have said in the past, it is, after all, just a Ford. That leads me to the second part of my theory. I have never kept a car this long or with this many miles, mine has over 120k. I can't say I love the car because I don't trust it but there are those, and my wife is one of them, who loves the car for its looks. Just last night we were out for dinner and the wife of a Porche sittting next to our car told my wife how much she loved the Thunderbird which leads me to the belief that this is the main reason, perhaps the only one I have for hanging on to this old Ford for all these years. I should point out that I had a '55 years ago with a six volt electrical system which makes this old '04 a dream by comparison.