Early Bird Article

[My Raven]

This letter was printed in the current issue of the Early Bird ... It got me to thinking about what Paul has been telling me for years: Especially the last paragraph!

Anyway, I enjoyed it and thought I would share ...
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For the newbies 2k2Bird is the Paul I am speaking about.
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[MerlotBlue]

Re: Early Bird Article

This letter was printed in the current issue of the Early Bird ... It got me to thinking about what Paul has been telling me for years: Especially the last paragraph!

Anyway, I enjoyed it and thought I would share ...

A fool and his money!

It isn't the car's fault when you don't understand what you are buying or bite off more than you can chew.


His is a lesson in why you bring along someone who knows the car if you don't.

.........and the real lesson here?

Choosing to "restore" a car is largely an EGO driven thing.

There is satisfaction in fixing things, restoring things and just forming the "relationship" with your pride and joy that can only be achieved while spending countless hours wrenching, waxing and scouring automotive repair and parts pages along the way from automotive waste case to perfection.

The idea that this is the CHEAPER route?

Forget it. A proper restore most always costs at least as much and often more in most cases than it does to just bite the built and buy a fully restored turn key car from an owner who has decided to sell.

While this route allows you to drive from day one and avoid a great many head-aches........you don't get to "Brag" when asked, "Did you do this?"

You don't have the attachment.

I freely admit though.

I'm not entirely sure if that sort of obsession is a good thing or a bad thing. Emotion is rarely a good idea when talking money and lets face it.........cars are gonna cost money........often far more than they are truly worth.........and now we are back to that first line in my rambling here, huh?

[Skip]

Re: Early Bird Article

Joe:

I was going to purchase a restored '57 TBird in 2000, after my daughter graduated from college, if the retro Bird had not come along. I was going to pay the price for a turnkey vehicle as I had already had two other 60's TBirds that were restoration projects that I sold virtually in the same condition that I bought them because I didn't have the time to give to them, and didn't always have the interest. This is the reason I'll consider another retro Bird rather than an older, more traditional "collector car" project. I think it is also the reason that a lot of older TBird owners, especially the 55-57 owners that wouldn't initially accept the retro Birds as "true" Tbirds, have, or are considering purchasing our cars. Even many of those with newer "old" Birds (58-66, etc), are looking at or have purchased retro Birds. You can enjoy them right away, they are safer, more comfortable, more reliable, and generally (now) in about the same price range.

Skip

[BirdsAndBugs]

Re: Early Bird Article

I've done both. I've restored some classic vehicles and also just bought some that were good driver restorations that I did little more than just drive and enjoy. The 2nd option to buy something ready to drive and enjoy is definitely the better and less costly option. Also, I've seen too many classic car owners who lack the time, money, or mechanical skills to fully bring their dream car back to it's original glory. If a car has been in the restoration process for 2 years or more.....it probably won't ever get completed.

Would I restore another car again? Sure if it was something very special. Maybe if I found the 1977 Pontiac Firebird (Skybird special edition) I sold years ago and later regretted.

[FUN X 3]

Re: Early Bird Article

Interesting article. I hope to someday own and drive a 62-63 Bird in addition to my 02 Bird, it will be a nice driver, not a garage queen show car. I'm looking forward to the day when my toughest decision of the day will be which Bird to drive to the golf course...

[SixPac]

Re: Early Bird Article

Good article Joe. We have many TBN members who also own the "early birds". In fact, one of the owners of TBN is in the process of fully restoring a '55 Bird and he's not on an EGO trip. He loves the Bird and doesn't mind parting with his money to see the restoration completed.

[Skip]

Re: Early Bird Article

A fool and his money!

It isn't the car's fault when you don't understand what you are buying or bite off more than you can chew.


His is a lesson in why you bring along someone who knows the car if you don't.

.........and the real lesson here?

Choosing to "restore" a car is largely an EGO driven thing.

There is satisfaction in fixing things, restoring things and just forming the "relationship" with your pride and joy that can only be achieved while spending countless hours wrenching, waxing and scouring automotive repair and parts pages along the way from automotive waste case to perfection.

The idea that this is the CHEAPER route?

Forget it. A proper restore most always costs at least as much and often more in most cases than it does to just bite the built and buy a fully restored turn key car from an owner who has decided to sell.

While this route allows you to drive from day one and avoid a great many head-aches........you don't get to "Brag" when asked, "Did you do this?"

You don't have the attachment.

I freely admit though.

I'm not entirely sure if that sort of obsession is a good thing or a bad thing. Emotion is rarely a good idea when talking money and lets face it.........cars are gonna cost money........often far more than they are truly worth.........and now we are back to that first line in my rambling here, huh?

Steve:

I don't think ego is a factor for most folks who consider restoring a collector, antique or special interest car. For many, this is the only way they can get into such a car. They can't afford a restored or complete one, even a good driver. Fortunately there are those options, and many of these cars do get completed, with or without outside help, which gives the owner/restorer a great feeling of pride and accomplishment. I know from my own experience that I would not consider a "project" car again, in the future, but I certainly would not discourage others from doing it. To some extent it is a live & learn situation, but I wouldn't trade my experience with the cars that I at least took a shot at restoring. I learned a lot, mechanically and academically.

Skip

[Bill Brown]

Re: Early Bird Article

I do not believe ego was a factor in my restoration of the 55. Seeing a totally trashed classic bird just made me ill and I wanted a challenge to take a classic back to it original condition. I made a few friends (parts dealers) along the way. My son-in-law worked along side me and I would not trade that time for anything. We had fun and earned some busted knuckles along the way but the laughs made it less painful and more memorable. We enjoy driving it and my grandson loves it so it will be his someday. If ego was a factor I believe I would have gone to Barrett-Jackson.

[5bird7]

Re: Early Bird Article

The older owners of the classic birds were the lucky ones, ie if they bought their 55-57 in the 60s or early 70s and spent the money to restore. It may have seemed a money pit back then but the prices escalated on them so fast in the late 70s and 80s for a completed, restored car that they usually did better than break even, if they decided to sell. I know of a few restorers that still make their living from restoring these old birds so it can be done but they are picky about what they will restore and what they will not.

We've had two basket case 55s that we resold when we decided they were going to be too much work to bring back to stock - and made money on them. Both were sold, not to an individual but to a restorer who promply turned around and used them for parts for other 'birds he was restoring. Neither of us lost money on the deals.

Our own 57 was tired but complete and the body was basically sound when we bought it in the early 70s. George brought it mechanically up to speed and we restored the body in the late 80s and when complete we still had less money in to it than it's value. The only time it was not a "driver" was during that body work phase - which took a year and a half.

The whole key to our 57 is that George knew what to look for and the price was right and he was in the right place at the right time to make the offer to buy the car.

[Steve Legel]

Re: Early Bird Article

From my hands on experience, selecting the right project car is key to fun and value. I've brought cars home in boxes, with rust, wrecks, pieces missing and not running. Current 59 el Camino has minimal rust, all its parts, runs and never been hit. Each a satisfaction in its own way (I would not say pleasure). Pride...sure...ego...no way.

The other big key is facility to work in...enough room, the right resources, tools, access to skilled assistance, hoist, heat in winter.

Money seperates the doers from the dreamers...nothing wrong with dreaming, though.

[RustyFrye]

Re: Early Bird Article

I own a Thunderbird.
Its not old, but it will be someday.

[MerlotBlue]

Re: Early Bird Article

Steve:

I don't think ego is a factor for most folks who consider restoring a collector, antique or special interest car. For many, this is the only way they can get into such a car. They can't afford a restored or complete one, even a good driver. Fortunately there are those options, and many of these cars do get completed, with or without outside help, which gives the owner/restorer a great feeling of pride and accomplishment. I know from my own experience that I would not consider a "project" car again, in the future, but I certainly would not discourage others from doing it. To some extent it is a live & learn situation, but I wouldn't trade my experience with the cars that I at least took a shot at restoring. I learned a lot, mechanically and academically.

Skip

Skip,
You seem to want to apply a big fat NEGATIVE to the word "EGO"!

I don't and you shouldn't either in this case.

Anyone who has spent both money and time they could have spent with family, friends or most any other endeavor has EGO tied up in their car.

At least I hope they do or it wasn't worth it.

I've gone both routes myself.

Selling a car I bought complete was EASY as compared to selling the one I busted knuckles on, scrounged though scrap yards and catalogs for parts and basically brought back from the dead.

What else besides EGO tied up in the fact I saved this basket case would explain my own mixed feelings about selling it.

Also........while you owned it.......the car you saved and brought back is the one you are going to be most proud of. I've got one old Corvette in the garage now that is the LAST car I'd ever want to sell simply because of the time spent on it bringing it back. It's definitely the car I own I'm most proud of. What but EGO would explain this?

Sadly this Restoration thing isn't for everyone.

Anyone even remotely interested in old cars has looked at an old car, a model they've always liked, and thought about bringing it back on their own. Some can, some can't.

This poor guy in the article made a mistake many folks do with that attempt. He over-estimated his own abilities and underestimated the costs.

I stand by the idea that a guy like this would have saved a bundle and enjoyed a car restored already if only he could have recognized his mistake here before buying this particular rolling basket case.

I'd argue it this way.

I disagree completely with your statement that this is the only way someone can afford the car. I'd argue and his story suggests I'm right......it costs more for a guy with limited skills and knowledge to put a car back together than it does to just suck it up and pay that bigger asking price for a completed car he can drive and enjoy from day one.

Ultimately?

If you can't afford the restored price?

You most likely can't even begin to afford the price of doing a proper restoration.

Most people, myself included, will tell you in, a moment of TOTAL HONESTY, the car or cars we've restored.......very rare is the car that can capture anything close to the money spent restoring them.

[MerlotBlue]

Re: Early Bird Article

Good article Joe. We have many TBN members who also own the "early birds". In fact, one of the owners of TBN is in the process of fully restoring a '55 Bird and he's not on an EGO trip. He loves the Bird and doesn't mind parting with his money to see the restoration completed.

.......and there it is again........why is this word so quickly assigned as a NEGATIVE?

"EGO TRIP!!??!?!?"

Who ever said that?

I suggested you have some of yourself invested in car you restored yourself that you don't when you just buy a completed car that colors how you will feel about one vs the other.

Fact is I'd expect it's far more likely you'll come across an "A-hole" (which is what I expect you really mean to say when you say "ego-trip") when you run across the person who thinks his car makes him more attractive or important.

Old cars rarely fit this profile.

Think more along the lines of newer cars.....especially the more expensive premium brands and the buyer who pays up to make some sort of lame statement to the world about how special he is.

To me that's the "Ego-trip".........and if anyone notices this as the motivation behind your choice it really makes you something of a joke too.

[MerlotBlue]

Re: Early Bird Article

From my hands on experience, selecting the right project car is key to fun and value. I've brought cars home in boxes, with rust, wrecks, pieces missing and not running. Current 59 el Camino has minimal rust, all its parts, runs and never been hit. Each a satisfaction in its own way (I would not say pleasure). Pride...sure...ego...no way.

The other big key is facility to work in...enough room, the right resources, tools, access to skilled assistance, hoist, heat in winter.

Money seperates the doers from the dreamers...nothing wrong with dreaming, though.

"pride" is an emotion you feel in your completed car. EGO is bolstered in the idea that you now know you can do this. The car is a tangible example of the fact.

EGO isn't a bad thing. I'm not entirely sure why so many posts here want to suggest it is. I mean who doesn't know the person with no self confidence at all? No ego there. Is that better?

Taking on something you've never done. ANYTHING at all.
Your ego gets a BOOST when-ever you complete it and realize, "Hey! I can do this!"

Your EGO takes a hit with each unanticipated failure. You better have enough "ego" already to overcome the inevitable set backs or you become the "quitter" who is afraid to try much of anything new or take on any challenges at all.

In the end........you may feel pride in the car you restore but don't doubt the idea you have EGO invested here too.

I strongly suspect this is what makes 'em a mixed emotions experience for so many of us when the offer or time comes that it makes sense to sell.

[My Raven]

Re: Early Bird Article

I posted this not to get into a debate about the merits of restoring cars but to simply note the last paragraph which the gentleman states the bottom line is enjoy your car regardless of condition and collectibility.

My friend Paul has has given me a friendly poke about this for years.

Flaming :flames: :flames: :flames: longtime respected members here is not appreciated or welcome particularly by me on a thread I started. It is also against the terms of use when you register for membership.

Perhaps, I should ask the adminstrators to lock it down if this behavior continues.