Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

[Gobird]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

We'll see what happends in the end. People seem to feed on controversy these days. Good or bad they seem to need that. I for one don't think it belongs on a site about Thunderbirds but I am only one of many. I can decide what I want to do and so can others. I'm finished with this subject.

[Sam]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

Again, she DID apologize, no matter how lame, or feeble, or insincere, some might think it was;

I would like to say something, not just to Vietnam veterans in New England, but to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did," Fonda said.

"I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm . . . very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."
Jane Fonda

Look how she looked!

Like a complete and total FOOL! Who WASN'T mad at her at the time?
I KNOW I was!














Look at her now!

She recently expressed regret at her support for the Viet Cong, saying, "It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanised such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless."

This woman is 67 years old, and a Born Again Christian. She has started some attempts at expressing her thoughtlessness, and it's time for others to move in that direction.
IF she were still saying those ugly, thoughtless things, then I'd say have at her! But we ALL do things we regret, and are ashamed of, I KNOW I have!
But I pray, that when I stand before my God, He's more understanding to my human frailties, sins, transgressions, lapses of good judgement, and plain old stupitity, (and I'll have a LOT of explaining to do!), than a grown man who spits in a ladies face!
I find that very, very sad............................................... ..

</I><!-- / message -->

[Shotsie]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

I was "shmoozed" by her in a couple of interviews about her new book, then my future aunt-in-law sent me an e-mail that reminded me about her saying our POWs weren't being tortured, and that the US was torturing North Vietnamese prisoners!

The interviewers NEVER asked the HARD questions, they soft-balled her as if she were a National Treasure!!!!!!!

Hanoi Jane is and always will be the same, she just wants to sell her book and make lots of money!!!!!!!

Oh, God, to think of all the Americans that were tortured and killed by the north Vietnamese that "Hanoi Jane" said were SO wonderful!!!!

I think if I'd EVER contributed to that, I'd have commited suicide because of the guilt!!!!!!

Of course, the "rich and famous" live in a "bubble" that we "ordinary people" don't understand!

Where's the list on TBN of the "rich and famous" who have gone to Iraq to entertain the troops? There ARE some!

Bob Hope, bless his heart, took groups of entertainers to Vietnam ALL during the war!!!!!

Didn't the senator from Arizona have something to say about Jane Fonda when he finally came back home?

I thought he did, but maybe I'm wrong.

My late husband and I NEVER went to see a movie she was in after she went to Hanoi as a matter of principle!

Jimmy Stewart's stepson who he raised "as his own" was killed in Vietnam, and Henry Fonda was his best friend from before either of them ever got married until Henry Fonda's death. Jimmy and his wife Gloria went to Vietnam before their son was killed, and took names and telephone numbers from soldiers to call their folks back in the US.

[theherd]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

Dear Ms Fonda,

May I call you Jane? I know it’s a bit presumptuous on my part since we’ve never met, but I’m trying to become more of a real man, and I think addressing each other by our first names will help. That puts everything on a more personal level, and helps put me more in touch with my more caring, more forgiving, feminine side. Please feel free to call me theherd, should you decide to write me back.

I belong to a forum made up of Thunderbird owners. Some of the discussions lately have been about you, and your actions in North Vietnam in 1972. There are a few of us, including me, who are Vietnam veterans. It has been brought to my attention by my very good friend, Sam, that I am a pig and not a real man. According to my good friend, Sam, I need to apologize to you for being angry at you for the past 33 years. I have to tell you, though, I am actually angrier at my parents right now than I am at you. They unfortunately raised me to believe that people should be held responsible and accountable for their actions. Apparently, in this day and age of liberal secularism, being held responsible and accountable for one’s actions isn’t included in the definition of a real man, or in your case, a real woman.

Although my good friend, Sam, is neither a Vietnam veteran nor a combat veteran, he was quick to point out to me how wrong I have been for not forgiving you for what you did so many years ago. I find it rather ironic that he finds fault in me for not forgiving you, a complete stranger, when he has been unable to forgive members of his own family for what he perceives they did to him. Of course, you can probably relate to that kind of logic, as you and my good friend, Sam, both have some problems. Here is a link you might find enlightening: http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html When I sent it to my good friend, Sam, he told me to go shit in my hat. I imagine I will get the same response from you.

I’m pretty confident that my definition of a real man is quite a bit different than that of my good friend, Sam, but I am going to do my best to apologize to you anyway, Jane. I’m sorry for being angry at you. What could I have possibly been thinking all these years? So what if you went to the capital city of North Vietnam, while the United States was at war with that nation. Since it was never officially declared a war, I shouldn’t hold it against you that while you were there, you sat on their anti-aircraft guns, made anti-American radio broadcasts, betrayed American POW’s, and gave aid and comfort to North Vietnamese soldiers. You shouldn’t be held responsible and accountable for those actions. You were just an idealistic young woman, and a representative of some people who just wanted to end an unjust war. I shouldn’t be angry at you for going about it the way you did. You just didn’t know any better. Obviously I’m wrong to think protesting the war on enemy soil the way you did is treasonous, or that you should be considered a traitor. What you did was no different than what any red blooded anti-American did in the United States at the time; you were just fortunate enough, famous enough, and wealthy enough to be able to do it on enemy soil. I mean Freedom of Speech is Freedom of Speech, right, Jane? Bravo for you, Jane. Please forgive me for being angry.

I’m so sorry that a Vietnam veteran spit on you the other day. As my good friend, Sam, said, what a cruel, heartless, pig he was. Real Vietnam veterans don’t do things like that, Jane. Real Vietnam veterans should be apologizing to you, not spitting on you. After all, why should I or any Vietnam veteran be upset that more than 58,000 of our brothers died in Vietnam, and another 400,000 were wounded in order to protect your right to spit on us, figuratively speaking of course? The world has been so unfair to you, Jane, so terribly unfair.

In closing, Jane, I just want to let you know that in the past 33 years I’ve rarely thought about you. To be perfectly honest, I’ve only thought about you when your name was brought up. Unlike what my good friend, Sam, believes, I’m not consumed by hatred for you. As a matter of fact, Jane, I really don’t care about you one way or the other. I would never spit on you, and I certainly don’t condone it. I personally would never go across the street to see you. I’ve never watched one of your movies, and I would never buy your exercise tapes, nor would I buy your new book.

You must know that you have been in control of this situation ever since you came back from Hanoi. Contrary to what my good friend, Sam, believes, all you have ever had to do is apologize. Just saying you were wrong, or that you were stupid, or that you caused a lot of pain to a lot of people isn’t going to cut it. On the Thunderbird site today, someone other than my good friend, Sam, had a great idea. Why don’t you go the Wall in Washington D.C., and sincerely apologize to the men memorialized there. Take a wreath to the Wall and publicly tell them that you are sorry. You do that, and all will be forgiven. Not only will that gesture put it to rest for you, but it will put it to rest for everyone else as well. Isn’t that what we all want? If you do that, I will personally and publicly be the first to accept your apology. Who knows, maybe my good friend, Sam, will even call me a real man. I might even go rent Barbarella, just to see what all the fuss is about.


Sincerely yours,

theherd

[Proboxfan]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

What I find amusing is that there are so many cynics and haters in this world, that if a story was ever written that Jane Fonda paid that guy to spit on her to help sales of her book, almost without exception, they'd all believe it.

Besides, don't you think she got enough off of Ted Turner that she doesn't have to worry about money for the rest of her life?

God how I miss seeing her and Ted doing the Tomahawk Chop at Braves' games!

[tonyv007]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

You Know Kevin, I Have Never Disagreed With You But There Was One Hell Of A Fight In Nam, It Was Nicknamed "hamburger Hill". It Was A Useless Hill Of No Value Other Than The Vc Had Control Of It. Our Top Brass And Government Decided To Use That Hill To Prove A Point To The Vc Or Whatever That We Could Take The Hill. The Vc Had The High Ground. For Days The Death Toll Mounted And The Wounded Mounted And It Was A Nightmare Beyond Your Imagination What Our Boys Had To Go Thru.

I Never Head One Word Of Pity From Jane Fonda Over Our Boys.

And I'm Still Pissed At Our Brave Senator Kennedy Who Made A Statement At That Time That Our Boys Couldn't Take The Hill. Well I Didn't See His Fat Ass Trying To Take The Hill, Nor Did I See This Hero With A Big Mouth Do Anything But Save His Own Backside When He Went Over That Bridge, Dwi, With That Girl In The Car Who Lost Her Life!

I Don't Forgive And Forget. I Am Sorry But I Had To Get This Off My Chest. For Those Lovers Of Kennedy, I Respect Your Opinion. That Doesn't Make You Right Or Wrong. I Have My Opinion Of Him And That Doesn't Make Me Right Or Wrong. But At A Time When Our Boys Were Getting Slaughtered On That Hill A Few Words Of Encouragement May Have Helped

[Proboxfan]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

Maybe we should do another poll:

Which shows more class and humanity,

Spitting tobacco juice on someone

OR

Waiting until someone's dead and p*ss*ng on their grave?

[fxstsb]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

What I find amusing is that there are so many cynics and haters in this world, that if a story was ever written that Jane Fonda paid that guy to spit on her to help sales of her book, almost without exception, they'd all believe it.

Besides, don't you think she got enough off of Ted Turner that she doesn't have to worry about money for the rest of her life?

God how I miss seeing her and Ted doing the Tomahawk Chop at Braves' games!

She has not changed. Born again? Her and her creator know. She may have to bare hatred for the rest of her life, Her creator might expect that of her. What is repentance?How much? Only one knows.

---------------- M E R G E D ---------------

Dear Ms Fonda,

May I call you Jane? I know it’s a bit presumptuous on my part since we’ve never met, but I’m trying to become more of a real man, and I think addressing each other by our first names will help. That puts everything on a more personal level, and helps put me more in touch with my more caring, more forgiving, feminine side. Please feel free to call me theherd, should you decide to write me back.

I belong to a forum made up of Thunderbird owners. Some of the discussions lately have been about you, and your actions in North Vietnam in 1972. There are a few of us, including me, who are Vietnam veterans. It has been brought to my attention by my very good friend, Sam, that I am a pig and not a real man. According to my good friend, Sam, I need to apologize to you for being angry at you for the past 33 years. I have to tell you, though, I am actually angrier at my parents right now than I am at you. They unfortunately raised me to believe that people should be held responsible and accountable for their actions. Apparently, in this day and age of liberal secularism, being held responsible and accountable for one’s actions isn’t included in the definition of a real man, or in your case, a real woman.

Although my good friend, Sam, is neither a Vietnam veteran nor a combat veteran, he was quick to point out to me how wrong I have been for not forgiving you for what you did so many years ago. I find it rather ironic that he finds fault in me for not forgiving you, a complete stranger, when he has been unable to forgive members of his own family for what he perceives they did to him. Of course, you can probably relate to that kind of logic, as you and my good friend, Sam, both have some problems. Here is a link you might find enlightening: http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html When I sent it to my good friend, Sam, he told me to go shit in my hat. I imagine I will get the same response from you.

I’m pretty confident that my definition of a real man is quite a bit different than that of my good friend, Sam, but I am going to do my best to apologize to you anyway, Jane. I’m sorry for being angry at you. What could I have possibly been thinking all these years? So what if you went to the capital city of North Vietnam, while the United States was at war with that nation. Since it was never officially declared a war, I shouldn’t hold it against you that while you were there, you sat on their anti-aircraft guns, made anti-American radio broadcasts, betrayed American POW’s, and gave aid and comfort to North Vietnamese soldiers. You shouldn’t be held responsible and accountable for those actions. You were just an idealistic young woman, and a representative of some people who just wanted to end an unjust war. I shouldn’t be angry at you for going about it the way you did. You just didn’t know any better. Obviously I’m wrong to think protesting the war on enemy soil the way you did is treasonous, or that you should be considered a traitor. What you did was no different than what any red blooded anti-American did in the United States at the time; you were just fortunate enough, famous enough, and wealthy enough to be able to do it on enemy soil. I mean Freedom of Speech is Freedom of Speech, right, Jane? Bravo for you, Jane. Please forgive me for being angry.

I’m so sorry that a Vietnam veteran spit on you the other day. As my good friend, Sam, said, what a cruel, heartless, pig he was. Real Vietnam veterans don’t do things like that, Jane. Real Vietnam veterans should be apologizing to you, not spitting on you. After all, why should I or any Vietnam veteran be upset that more than 58,000 of our brothers died in Vietnam, and another 400,000 were wounded in order to protect your right to spit on us, figuratively speaking of course? The world has been so unfair to you, Jane, so terribly unfair.

In closing, Jane, I just want to let you know that in the past 33 years I’ve rarely thought about you. To be perfectly honest, I’ve only thought about you when your name was brought up. Unlike what my good friend, Sam, believes, I’m not consumed by hatred for you. As a matter of fact, Jane, I really don’t care about you one way or the other. I would never spit on you, and I certainly don’t condone it. I personally would never go across the street to see you. I’ve never watched one of your movies, and I would never buy your exercise tapes, nor would I buy your new book.

You must know that you have been in control of this situation ever since you came back from Hanoi. Contrary to what my good friend, Sam, believes, all you have ever had to do is apologize. Just saying you were wrong, or that you were stupid, or that you caused a lot of pain to a lot of people isn’t going to cut it. On the Thunderbird site today, someone other than my good friend, Sam, had a great idea. Why don’t you go the Wall in Washington D.C., and sincerely apologize to the men memorialized there. Take a wreath to the Wall and publicly tell them that you are sorry. You do that, and all will be forgiven. Not only will that gesture put it to rest for you, but it will put it to rest for everyone else as well. Isn’t that what we all want? If you do that, I will personally and publicly be the first to accept your apology. Who knows, maybe my good friend, Sam, will even call me a real man. I might even go rent Barbarella, just to see what all the fuss is about.


Sincerely yours,

theherd

Many people gave their lives because their country asked and some were told. But, they did it. Some of both groups gave their lives so that protestors can protest. In my opinion, protestors have a responsibility when they do their protesting. That is to be responsible. Vietnam has changed many lives and outlook on life. Today the thought of spitting on a vet or condescending to one, is really very low. They gave and or would have given their lives for you. I think there are at least 58000 americans that would agree with me. They just cannot voice their opinion. They make muster every morning. Their names are all on the wall.

[jerrym3]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

I'm not defending what she did; it was wrong, period, but I wonder how much of her actions may have been caused by the bad guys BSing her. (Please note the use of the word "may".)

Reminds me a bit of the WWII movies where the "neutral Swiss delegation" is given access to the American prisoners, and are fed a big line. (Ex: Stalag 17 and the b/w WWII movie with Dana Andrews when the crew of an American plane is executed at the end after a fake war trial; I'm too lazy to look up the name of the movie, but it's a great one.)

Unfortunately, many people, including her, have disgraced America, from kids burning flags, to a President who can't control his zipper, to politicians who cloud the truth to enter into an unpopular war, to people wearing halters and tight shorts made up to look like our flag.

I read that Clinton had a shot at Osama, but didn't take it because he was in too much "Monica" trouble. If this is true, that could have been the most negative, expensive, and meaningful sex act in the history of mankind, second only to the one that created Hitler.

I've been to the Pearl Harbor monument, and, if you haven't been there, it's amazing how quiet and solemn the crowd gets when you enter.

The one thing that p****d me off to no end was three Japanese tourists taking pictures in the monument (which is OK in my book) all with big grins on their faces (not OK in my book).

The proper picture would have been the tourists shown with their heads down in remeberance, not laughing and giddy.

But, I didn't spit at or admonish them. What good would it have done?

[JAB02LHS]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

Dear Ms Fonda,


Although my good friend, Sam, is neither a Vietnam veteran nor a combat veteran, he was quick to point out to me how wrong I have been for not forgiving you for what you did so many years ago. I find it rather ironic that he finds fault in me for not forgiving you, a complete stranger, when he has been unable to forgive members of his own family for what he perceives they did to him. Of course, you can probably relate to that kind of logic, as you and my good friend, Sam, both have some problems. Here is a link you might find enlightening: http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html When I sent it to my good friend, Sam, he told me to go shit in my hat. I imagine I will get the same response from you.

In closing, Jane, I just want to let you know that in the past 33 years I’ve rarely thought about you. To be perfectly honest, I’ve only thought about you when your name was brought up. Unlike what my good friend, Sam, believes, I’m not consumed by hatred for you. As a matter of fact, Jane, I really don’t care about you one way or the other. I would never spit on you, and I certainly don’t condone it. I personally would never go across the street to see you. I’ve never watched one of your movies, and I would never buy your exercise tapes, nor would I buy your new book.

You must know that you have been in control of this situation ever since you came back from Hanoi. Contrary to what my good friend, Sam, believes, all you have ever had to do is apologize. Just saying you were wrong, or that you were stupid, or that you caused a lot of pain to a lot of people isn’t going to cut it. On the Thunderbird site today, someone other than my good friend, Sam, had a great idea. Why don’t you go the Wall in Washington D.C., and sincerely apologize to the men memorialized there. Take a wreath to the Wall and publicly tell them that you are sorry. You do that, and all will be forgiven. Not only will that gesture put it to rest for you, but it will put it to rest for everyone else as well. Isn’t that what we all want? If you do that, I will personally and publicly be the first to accept your apology. Who knows, maybe my good friend, Sam, will even call me a real man. I might even go rent Barbarella, just to see what all the fuss is about.


Sincerely yours,


theherd

Ray, Well done

[CaptainKen]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

You make some very good points jerrym3.

The Japanese (not politically correct to call them "Japs") committed many more war crimes against the US, British, Australian, Chinese and Koreans that any other race in history. They slaughtered millions of Chinese for decades prior to WWII. Any light skinned (man woman or child) who was captured by them could expect a public execution. I don't mean to sound racist here, but them's the facts. Ask a vet of the WWII pacific Campaign what respect and thoughts he has for the Japanese of that time.

So what do we do after nuking them? Spend billions rebuilding their economy and welcome them like long lost brothers. Now they are bankrupting US workers and companies.

Certainly what Fonda did was far beyond normal and democratic war protesting, but she in an AMERICAN and she has the remorse to apologize to her countrymen. She probably will never apologize enough to erase those images and words. So when and if, my best friend on this site and Vietnam veteran, Ray, forgives Fonda she should be forgiven by all Americans.

[Sam]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

(1.) Ray, what a sweet thing to do! (I never called you a pig, I said the man who spat in her face was.)
(2.) Tony, Ted Kennedy wasn't fat at the time of Viet Nam. Remember how thin he was in those photo's the morning in July of 1969, after he swam out of that 1967 Oldsmobile, and made several dives in attempt to save Mary Jo,then swam across to his hotel? And then didn't tell the police until 11:00 AM.
(3.) Jerry, I agree with you. I've seen Japanese tourist at the Arizona Memorial on TV, smile, and giggle while taking eachothers pictures, acting like they're in Disneyland! It should be a place of reverence.

[tonyv007]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

Dear Jane, Please Consider My Name Signed Also To The Letter That My Friend Ray (the Herd) Wrote You. I Only Differ With His Opinion On 1 Point. If You Go To The Wall In Washington, He Will Forgive You. I Will Not!!!

You Were Fortunate To Be Born Into Money, Maybe That Gave You The Notion That You Are "special" And As Such You Probably Beleive It. And You Maybe Even Be Right. Some Of Us Were Not That Fortunate, Nor Did We Go To College To Get Out Of The Draft, Nor Did We Run To Canada To Hide, Nor Did We Get Married To Get Out Of The Draft. But We Were Fortunate To Give Life And Limb To Defend Your Shopping Spree's On Rodeo Drive. But Don't Even Give That A 2nd Thought, As I'm Sure You Never Did! After All It Is Your Right And The U.s. Constitution Affords You Those Privileges And Rights. I Think You Just Never Thought Of Those Who Have To Lay Life And Limb To Enforce And Defend Your Rights. As The Oath Says " I Will Support And Defend The Constitution Of The United States Of America, Against All Enemies, Foreign And Domestic. Some Of Us View You As A Domestic Enemy. But You Can Help Change My Mind By Informing Me What You Did To Support The Constitution Against All Enemies During The Nam Era. And Oh, Don't Tell Me You Were Exercising Your Constitutional Right, Rather Talk About Those That Gave Their Lives To Afford You An Opportunity To Exercise What You May Consider Your Constitutional Rights!

[theherd]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

(1.) Ray, what a sweet thing to do! (I never called you a pig, I said the man who spat in her face was.)
(2.) Tony, Ted Kennedy wasn't fat at the time of Viet Nam. Remember how thin he was in those photo's the morning in July of 1969, after he swam out of that 1967 Oldsmobile, and made several dives in attempt to save Mary Jo,then swam across to his hotel? And then didn't tell the police until 11:00 AM.

Well, I've got to hand it to you, Sam. You are definitely a piece of work.

[tonyv007]

Re: Vet Pays Back Hanoi Jane

TO JANE FONDA: YOU WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED AS A "GYPSY THUNDERBIRD" MEMBER.