Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

[007Cruiser]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

One that got out was the Takata airbag.

[tbird3127]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Hello, Can someone tell me more about the dreaded "Power Control Module" What does it do? When available was it expensive? Never an aftermarket? Is it repairable? Where is it located? How difficult (skill) to swap out? Thanks

[wcoates]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

One that got out was the Takata airbag.

c'mon Gene ya got people dying and Car companies desire to keep suppliers confidential are secondary to Government and Judicial intervention.

Hello, Can someone tell me more about the dreaded "Power Control Module" What does it do?

suggest Googling PCM. Wikipedia as well as others have good explanation.
I understand it to be the computer system that monitors/controls both engine and transmission functions.

When available was it expensive?

When the Ford dealer thought they could get a nos unit
I was quoted just north of $1,000.


Never an aftermarket? Is it repairable?

I don't believe the aftermarket produced them but many firms repair. How well repaired is the question. another confusing item is that most sites ask for vin number. Indeed one site lists 22 Ford part numbers for my 2003.

Where is it located? How difficult (skill) to swap out? Thanks

I don't think the swapping out is the main problem as I was told that they need re-flashed/programmed after getting the correct part number. (this I was told by local Ford dealer during my ordeal of getting tranny repaired).

[Linear]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Hello, Can someone tell me more about the dreaded "Power Control Module" What does it do? When available was it expensive? Never an aftermarket? Is it repairable? Where is it located? How difficult (skill) to swap out? Thanks

Alan,

As best I know, the PCM contains a microprocessor, electronic memory, and control circuitry (relays, transistors, etc), and it is programmed with custom software. As LAPHIL and other TBD members have pointed out, Ford frequently changed the software and probably even the hardware even with a model year. For example there are at least 16 different version of PCM for my 2004 model year. Therefore, the part has to be matched to your VIN number.

Basically, the PCM controls the other modules on the car, the transmission, the fuel pump, and many other electronic functions. When my PCM failed, all the electronics dropped out, engine died, power steering and power brakes failed.......completely dead car! You get code P0606 (and a few other sub codes).

When available from Ford Parts it cost about $1000 (maybe $800 online from FordPartsGiant.com). It was never available as an aftermarket part in the traditional sense. Refurbished units are now available that have been "Repaired" like a computer is repaired. Defective hardware ( probably surface mount components) would have to be unsoldered and replaced. Then the appropriate software (for the VIN number) would have to be loaded. This is impossible for any car mechanic to do! I'm an Electronics Engineer, and I used to design Integrated Circuits, but for me diagnose the defective hardware would be extremely difficult without a schematic and spec. Without access to the software, you have no chance at all!

The PCM is behind/under the glove compartment, with connectors through the firewall. Physically, swapping it out with a "new" PCM (that matches your Vin number) would be relatively easy. BUT, my understanding is that it must then be activated with custom software and hardware that only Ford Dealers have....

So, short answer......this is an extremely difficult part to repair and install!

[Linear]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Just a quick update regarding my personal ESP and PCM problem.

My Ford Dealer and I have spent the last few days trying to contact someone at Ford that would discuss this issue, but we have been "stonewalled" by both the Ford Customer Relationship Center (800 number) and the Area Service Rep.

Initially, we thought that we were dealing with lazy or uninformed employees, but yesterday my dealer finally got to talk with the Area Service Rep's boss. The "boss" said that it was "not in their job description" to address any ESP issues. Meanwhile, the "800 number people" say that the only way to contact Ford about ESP issues is through the Area Service Rep!!

So, as has been suggested previously in this thread, it looks like Ford's official policy is to stonewall, and then, if necessary, call in the lawyers.

With the help of some "connected" TBN members, my next step will be to try and contact higher level management at Ford and see what they say.

Doug (aka Linear)

[Sierra977]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

To address a couple points from above,

Ford's "Halo Car" is the Ford GT not the Mustang.

As we sit here today, we are 1 generation away from universal driverless cars. Kids growing up today will view us old drivers as we today view Pony Express riders.

[Guest]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Hey Newman,

Good point about driverless cars, and we are just one generation or closer to that reality. Cars driven by people will become rarer and rarer, and don't expect exotic styling with what will become fleets of 'lookalike pods' designed primarily for safety, comfort and efficiency.

As for the 'Halo' cars, Ford, along with other automakers use that term for one or more cars that they may be promoting at the time, or that have heritage or lineage over decades. The 2002-2005 Thunderbird has been referred to by Ford as both a 'Halo' car and a 'Living Legend,' as has the Mustang. Also the Ford GT. GMs 'Halo' cars would of course include the Corvette, but the Camaro could also carry that moniker.

The whole idea of a 'Halo' car is more of marketing, branding or positioning gimmick used to connote that a certain vehicle is a 'cut above' and different from other mass-produced cars.

[jerrym3]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

To address a couple points from above,

Ford's "Halo Car" is the Ford GT not the Mustang.

As we sit here today, we are 1 generation away from universal driverless cars. Kids growing up today will view us old drivers as we today view Pony Express riders.

I respectfully disagree.

Ask the younger folks, not us old timers, what vehicle they link immediately with the name Ford, and they will most likely say Mustang, not Ford GT (or Ford Cobra or Thunderbird). Most don't even know what a Ford GT is.

In the future, while they may gather around the GT at a car show, they won't even know it's a Ford.

As for me, I think Galaxie is the Ford halo model. But, heck, I may be biased.

[AZTB]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

...As for me, I think Galaxie is the Ford halo model. But, heck, I may be biased.

Great point, Jerry. For me, as a 4-year-old, the Ford name came alive in 1954 when I saw my first Thunderbird (MY halo Ford car)...but then, like most of us, I'm now a dated commodity.

[11TH GEN]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Halo car for me: 57 Bel Air two door HT power pack.

[carntz]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Why is it that Money powerful businesses can shun responsibility and be protected by the system.
The consumer protection agency works except when it comes to the auto industry.
Warranty work is an age old problem. When my 6 month old Mustang convertible had a faint scratch / line up and down on the drivers window. , The Service rep said it was my fault, because I must have got a sand particle in there. When I paid to have the glass replaced when it got worse, Safelite took a picture of the mechanism as it scrapped the window. It was shown to Ford. Then I was told I should have brought it back. Yeah Right.

We all have lost at one point on a warranted claim. I bet there are thousands of TBN members with similar stories and it is not limited to just one manufacturer I am sure.
My Rant is now officially over

[BirdsAndBugs]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

So many here on TBN are hoping these retro Thunderbirds eventually become somewhat collectible like the original 55-57 models. If parts availability is an issue, demand will deteriorate real fast. That's probably true in regards to not just the Thunderbird, but any of the modern day muscle and specialty cars. Cars now are so electronic where they used to be more mechanical.

[Guest]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Like many cars that were considered quite ordinary in their day, some Retros will also become highly sought-after, collectible and bring high prices at auction.

As for the issue with electronics, all modern manufacture vehicles have them. The industry will evolve, software will get shared, and aftermarket companies will find ways to replicate and reproduce these components, just as parts for the 1955-57 Thunderbirds have become easy to find.

To think otherwise would suggest that the collector car business/hobby will disappear due to the transition from 'mechanical' to 'drive by wire', electronic module dependent vehicles.

People will still collect cars, companies like Mecum and Barrett-Jackson will continue to auction them, and aftermarket companies will continue to find ways to reproduce parts for them. Prices will go up, and new collectible 'stars' will emerge.

Who would have ever thought that something like a ca. 1963 Dodge Polara convertible would bring over $ 100K at auction? Yeah, it was a big engine and very limited production, but this is a car that sold for maybe $ 2,000-3,000 when new. A 50 fold increase in 50 years? Pretty remarkable.

If low-mileage, well-maintained or fully-restored Retros bring only 10 times their cost when new, values will approach $ 400,000 or more.

I know, few if any can conceive of such a number today, but neither could the original owners of the collector cars that now bring mid to high six figures at auction.

[HKS]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

Like many cars that were considered quite ordinary in their day, some Retros will also become highly sought-after, collectible and bring high prices at auction.

As for the issue with electronics, all modern manufacture vehicles have them. The industry will evolve, software will get shared, and aftermarket companies will find ways to replicate and reproduce these components, just as parts for the 1955-57 Thunderbirds have become easy to find.

To think otherwise would suggest that the collector car business/hobby will disappear due to the transition from 'mechanical' to 'drive by wire', electronic module dependent vehicles.

People will still collect cars, companies like Mecum and Barrett-Jackson will continue to auction them, and aftermarket companies will continue to find ways to reproduce parts for them. Prices will go up, and new collectible 'stars' will emerge.

Who would have ever thought that something like a ca. 1963 Dodge Polara convertible would bring over $ 100K at auction? Yeah, it was a big engine and very limited production, but this is a car that sold for maybe $ 2,000-3,000 when new. A 50 fold increase in 50 years? Pretty remarkable.

If low-mileage, well-maintained or fully-restored Retros bring only 10 times their cost when new, values will approach $ 400,000 or more.

I know, few if any can conceive of such a number today, but neither could the original owners of the collector cars that now bring mid to high six figures at auction.

Phil,
Thanks for giving us hope and trying to cheer us up.

HKS

[Rondor]

Re: Valid ESP Contract but Required Part Obsolete?

As I have said on more than one occasion Phil is right. You can tell who knows auto history and who doesn't. Also a united front by retro owners and other Ford enthusiasts could bring a lot of market pressure publicity wise to get better co-operation from Ford.
If half of retro oners contributed $20. and hired a PR firm they could do a number on Ford sales.